Trials come and go, but some images last forever. Who can forget O.J. Simpson attempting to accommodate his hammy fist inside a tight leather glove? And who will forget the first day of the Larry Flynt trial with Flynt on the steps of the Common Pleas Court in Cincinnati being serenaded by a guitar-strumming, broadbacked, Greg Norman lookalike in black cowboy hat, jockey shorts and little else?
Court TV offered the following report yesterday on the jury selection in the Flynt trial.
Nancy Grace: "Videos at the Larry Flynt trial are graphic to say the least. They show some sex acts and behavior that most people will consider XXX-rated. Lawyers today in Cincinnati began jury selection: 12 ordinary citizens will have the ultimate say about Flynt's videos."
Helen Lucaitis: "Nancy, in every city and town all across the country, the decision over what's obscene and what isn't, is left to local juries. They're supposed to be a jury of one's peers. But how will they decide Flynt's fate? This morning [Monday] the porn king got a small showing of support outside of court.
"You might say Larry Flynt arrived at court today on an unusual note. Larry Flynt and his brother Jimmy are accused of selling porn videos to a minor who was part of a police sting operation. The brothers which own Hustler Books in Cincinnati are also accused of selling obscene videos to adults - including Pam & Tommy Lee's Hardcore and Uncensored.
Larry Flynt: "It was no surprise. I was wondering what took them so long.
Jimmy Flynt: "They threw everything they could at us except the kitchen sink."
Joseph Deters [prosecutor]: "The matter sold here is among the most vile, degrading, and, in particular, degrading to women - matter ever sold in Hamilton County.
Lucaitis: "We went shopping to see what kind of porn we could find in Hamilton County besides Flynt's. We found these Penthouse videos filled with women masturbating. In this one, two women perform oral sex on each other.
Larry Flynt: "I definitely think that there's selected prosecution there."
Lucaitis: "Flynt, who's made millions from porn is no stranger to Cincinnati courts. He was first prosecuted there in 1977 and was convicted of pandering obscenity for selling Hustler magazine.
Flynt [in a 1977 newsreel]: "I'm about to be a part of this fight for freedom. And anyone who would ask me to lay these principles aside, I say to them in the language that I know best, two words: shove it."
Simon Leis [Flynt's prosecutor in 1977]: "Larry Flynt is one of the many causes why we have reached the low ebb in society today."
Lucaitis: "Flynt was given the maximum sentence, but he won on appeal and was never retried. Still, Hustler wasn't sold in Cincinnati until Flynt opened his store in 1996. In 1995, Flynt's life story became a Hollywood hit."
Woody Harrelson: "I think there's a lot of things where you might stop and say, hey, the guy's a lowlife. But, at the same time, you look at a guy who speaks his truth and what he did with his life, and I think it's important."
Courtney Love: "I learned that he's a folk hero in a lot of ways. You can hate him, but he protected all of us."
Lucaitis: "Larry Flynt's latest legal trouble could land him in prison for up to 26 years - a price he's willing to pay."
Larry Flynt: "I'm 55 years old. I'm in a wheel chair. For the most part, I've already lived my life. If I can leave any kind of legacy at all, I'd like for it to be that of expanding the perimeters of free speech."
Lucaitis: "Larry Flynt has told me he's not intentionally looking for material for the sequel to his movie though he appears to have plenty. For those who hope Flynt's trial and potential conviction would wipe out smut from their county, Flynt's videos are still sold just over the county line. And they're also sold all over the Internet, too.
Nancy Grace: "I understand other peoples' XXX videos are selling, no proble. So why Flynt?"
Lucaitis: "Flynt claims he's the target of this political charge here in the county, but they're sold just over the county line. It's up to each individual community to decide for itself what is obscene and what isn't.
Grace went on to interview Court TV reporter Clara Tuma and Hale Starr, a jury consultant.
Grace [to Tuma]: "Bring me up to date. How in the heck are they going to get a jury of his peers. Where can you find 12 porn kings?"
Tuma: "You're not going to find 12 porn kings, but you might 12 people who say they can look at pornography either for the first time in the courtroom or in addition to what they also watch in their personal life and judge it with an open mind. That's what they're looking for: people who will say I may or may not approve of this; I may or may not be disgusted by this, but I can judge it fairly because the question of whether you're disgusted by it is not the same question as whether pornography should be illegal."
Grace: "Have there be any jurors who's stated that they absolutely under no circumstance can view 33 hours of porn?"
Tuma: "No. In fact, they haven't started the personal questions yet. But even the lawyers don't know what will happen if somebody views that much pornography in such a limited amount of time because they can't find another case when jurors have been asked to watch that much hardcore adult entertainment in such a confined setting with people you don't know sitting beside you in a public spectacle such as a courtroom. So they don't know where to look to find the research to see how it will affect these jurors.
Grace: "I will hold back on all my speculation of what will happen when they watch 33 hours of Larry Flynt's pornography in a jury room togerther. I'll go no further, but I'll speculate later. Hale, this jury has got to be a particular type of jury...you as a jury consultant, what would you suggest?"
Starr: "Well you're basically looking at the difference between a fear of sex and a fear of crime, versus someone who will...
Grace: "Wait a minute, you said they're trying to pick a jury that does not have a fear of sex?"
Starr: "No. One side, prosecution, is going to have a fear of sex and a fear of sin. The other side is going to be looking for someone who loves privacy and who loves the Constitution and the right for Free Speech.
Grace: "I would think that they would want someone that would have a fear of it being discovered that they like to watch pornography. Who is going to stand up in front of a jury panel - there could be 60, a 100 people in there - and say X-rated videos? No problem. Watch them all the time. Me and my wife love them! It's not going to happen. How are you going to get honest answers in that courtroom?"
Starr: "You're not going to get honest answers about themselves. But we all have friends. Our friends love this, or our friends do that. We all understand the issues of going to a psychologist and talking about what my friend needs, my friend wants. That will be the approach."
Grace: "Oh, I get it. Like when we read those letters to Dear Abby. Clara Tuma, do you think they'll be honest in those written questionnaires. I took a long look at the questionnaire. It starts off pretty simple, but, then, of course, it degenerates at the back to Hustler magazine, Larry Flynt, Jimmy Flynt, blah, blah. So it starts off like every other questionnaire I've ever seen. Do you think they'll be honest in answering those questions?"
Tuma: "Well, you certainly hope they will be. They take an oath to be honest. One of the most unusual questions on that questionnaire is would you feel comfortable discussing sexually explicit material with your fellow jurors that you don't even know. Lest, you think this will be a normal trial, there's that question to tell us. This morning, when Larry Flynt came into court he was serenaded by the man in his underwear. There were also a number of supporters here, and they were doing something you don't see in too many criminal trials, that is giving away T-shirts and postcards. 'Free Larry! Free Larry!' they were chanting.
Starr: "But one of the things that we do know, when we look at people answering supplemental juror questionnaires which this is, is that 99 out of 100 tell the truth including the fact on rape issues that they have been the perpetrator, not the victim. We do expect truth."
Tuma: "Things have changed in the last 20 years. 20 years ago, when Larry Flynt went to trial, they called Hustler magazine a girlie magazine. You don't even call it that anymore. And now when you got softcore pornography easily accessible on cable television, and you got video stores on every street corner, things have certainly changed. And lawyers on both sides are hoping that openness will prevail and people will fell free enough to say, not, here's what I enjoy, but I can be fair in this case."
Grace: "Hale, would the plaintiff, would the state want men or women on this jury?"
Starr: "Depends on their life experiences. Mothers versus single women who are liberal who are older in ther fifties - could be a big difference."
\nAttorney Johnnie Cochran interviewed Flynt, Screw publisher Al Goldstein and the Reverend Jerry Falwell yesterday.
Cochran: "The king of porn is back in the Queen City. To hear Larry Flynt, tell it, he's got the city what where he wants them - in court. 20 years after his first obscenity trial, Flynt, is, once again, facing the music for selling smut.
Larry Flynt: "People have to tolerate the Larry Flynts of the world so they can be free. Because that's the price you pay for that freedom. Our argument is that it was part of a setup - a police sting operation where they paid the kid to come in there with a fake I.D. and make the purchase."
Voiceover: "In 1983, the Reverend Jerry Falwell successfully sued Flynt as a result of a parody in Hustler magazine which said Falwell lost his virginity to his mother in an outhouse."
Larry Flynt: "I think it was hilarious."
Jerry Falwell: "I think I can take a joke as well as anyone, but I just never had met a creature quite as low as Larry Flynt. I'm sure there are some others living under rocks somewhere."
Voiceover: "Flynt appealed all the way to the Supreme Court in a landmark decision."
Cochran: "Mr. Flynt, 20 plus years ago the town of Cincinnati gave you 7 to 25 years. What are you doing out there getting arrested again? Are you a glutton for punishment?"
Flynt: "No, but I think the principle is awfully important, and I felt I should be out there on the forefront of this First Amedment fight and be willing to fight it in Cincinnati."
Cochran: "So you're back again. This is reprise #2. Now, you don't want to become like Dr. Kevorkian, and go to the well once too often, do you?"
Flynt: "No. I don't want to become the Dr. Kevorkian of porn."
Cochran: "That would be unwise, would it not?"
Flynt: "Right. I hope we can win this."
Cochran: "I'm sure we're going to talk about this during the course of the program. Rev. Falwell, what do you think Mr. Flynt is trying to accomplish, sir by getting arrested at this point?"
Falwell: [Makes a comment about Cochran's tie.] "Larry is in a business I don't appreciate. He and I are friends, but I disagree totally with the fact that the First Amendment has been interpreted to protect and allow the kind of industry that Larry heads. I certainly don't want to see Larry at age 55 in prison. I don't want to see his family in all the pain that comes with this. I don't even know the circumstances. He says it was a sting operation, and I'm sure the city of Cincinnati is saying otherwise. My goal in life is to see Larry really and truly give his heart and life to Jesus Christ and quit this garbage production and get out of this kind of jam. There are lots of other jams that are more fun to get into than go to jail for selling porn."
Flynt: "Jerry, I'm trying to convert you. Quit trying to convert me."
Cochran: "Al Goldstein, do you see Larry Flynt as a hero for the First Amendment?"
Goldstein: "Larry is a hero, John, let me tell you. I started Screw in '68. Larry picked up the baton in '72 and has done a better job than I have. He's a true believer in ther First Amendment. He's taken two bullets for our sins. By our sins, I mean our puritanism, our anti-sex mythology. It's alright if Jerry Falwell wants to go to Sunday School. But I have friends who go to topless clubs, who love naked women, who are happy. Think of the sale of Viagra. Viagra is about erections and ejaculations. If a presidential candidate can endorse it. We are a sex-positive world, and if we have try and deal with the bigots who try to repress us and make us feel bad. Last night [Sunday] I returned from Amsterdam. Amsterdam is the country of yes. America is the country of no. Instead of having women in windows in Amsterdam where it's 25 dollars, we make it illegal. We make drugs illegal. We are such a punitive country when it comes to telling other people what to do. Larry Flynt is a hero, a battler, and a courageous...warrior"
Falwell: "Al, I'm one of the bigots you're talking about. I think what you started in '68 and what has done so much damage to so many familes...as a pastor who has counseled thousands of people who have been victims of what you produce and sell, Amsterdam or the regions of hell, pornography belongs in the flame."
Goldstein: "Jerry Falwell..."
Flynt: "There's no scientific evidence whatsoever that indicates that exposure to sexually-related materials is harmful in anyway. If this evidence existed, the government would close us down tomorrow. The presidential commission on obscenity in the early Seventies pointed this out, but Richard Nixon chose to ignore it, and the report's been gathering dust ever since."
Goldstein: "The Jerry Falwells. Let's look at their agenda. They're anti- homosexuality. They're anti-masturbation. They're anti-sex other than for procreation in marriage. They're allowed to have their values. It's when they take my rights away. I'm a fat man. Don't come to Baskin & Robbins or Haagen-Dazs and take my double-chocolate peanut butter away. Give me my choices. Don't be a bigot, Jerry. You probably do vanilla. You wouldn't know a good ice cream flavor if it hit you on the head."
Cochran: "Hustler magazine founder Larry Flynt is waging another legal fight over his right to sell pornography. Jerry Falwell, one of the problems that seems to me in this whole area is how we define pornography and obscenity. We use the words back and forth. How would you as a minister define for us, obscenity."
Falwell: "As one Supreme Court justice once said, a definition of pornography is very difficult because, as Larry would be quick to tell you, it's in the eye of the beholder. But I don't think there's any difficulty at all as a pastor who spent two hours with one family last week..."
Flynt: "Come on, that's baloney...you're reporting from the victim's side...pornography and obscenity are not synonymous..."
Falwell: "I spent two hours with a family, married 20 years, two teengae boys and they didn't know he was spending hours on the Internet with ponography. He upped and walked out after being a stable and sound husband and father. He says that pornography has driven him out. He's gone somewhere else looking for excitement. I do not know of one thing redeeming or valuable or contributory to any human being that can be found in pornography. You ask if it is legal or moral, if I had the authority, I wish that somebody would, I would make it totally illegal. To me it's a deeply immoral thing, pornography is. Al knows it in his heart, and so does Larry know it in his heart...the pain they've caused is irreparable."
Cochran: "Your definition of obscenity, and I want you to couch it in the First Amendment, also."
Flynt: "Okay. The Supreme Court has said that pornography and obscenity are not synonymous. Ypu would get a condusing response from 75% of the people in America, when you'd ask what's the difference between the two. Pornography has existed ever since cavemen were drawing etchings on their walls. Obscenity is a legal definition. A work of art in order to be obscene, must pass certain standards under the Miller test. So what you're talking about, you're talking about two totally separate things."
Cochran: "Al Goldstein...your definition of obscenity. I want to get this out on the table."
Goldstein: "Let me quote a dear friend, Gloria Leonard, who said the difference between pornography and art is the lighting. We're really talking about objective, semantic choices. One man's marriage is another man's perversion. People are allowed to take in the multiplicity of choices. I sometimes, as a pornographer, feel like a black man in America in the Forties. I was demonized...just like Jerry who means well but he's misguided. He thinks, and he won't respond, I've debated him so often, he won't tell us that he thinks homsexuality is a sin....sex outside of marriage is a sin...obviously photos of sexual variations - cunnilingus and fellatio are perversions. So, if he thinks the act is a perversion, the representation is a perversion. Try to pin him down, please, John, you're the lawyer."
Falwell: "I happen to be a father, Al, of three children. The children were not virgin-born. I'm a grandfather of five, and I do believe that sex is a gift of God within a marriage between a man and a woman. I do believe that all sexual activity outside of a legal marriage between a man and a woman exclusively is wroing. It's immorality. I do believe that homosexuality is wrong but no more wrong than heterosexual promiscuity."
Cochran: "How do we regulate something that's so difficult to define. As you look at legal definitions, everybody has their own idea what obscenity is...would you agree that's pretty difficult to regulate?"
Falwell: "I'm not for raiding or invading bedrooms. I'm not for putting people in jail for adultery. That is not what I'm saying. But there must be standards of morality and decency. Pornography fits none of those standards in any decent person's judgment. I personally feel that America, if it were not for pornography and obscenity, it would be a far better place for our children, our families, our nation to grow up in, and I believe that Larry and Al believe that in their heart of hearts as well."
Cochran: "Larry, I want to give you a chance to respond to the Rev. Falwell."
Flynt: "We're anally-retentive enough as a society, so that the type of sexual repression the reverend is advocating, would just make things worse. I'm going to point to a fact that I think where the timing is very good to do such. You can put a photograph on the front page of a newspaper of a mutilated, decapitated body. You might even win a Pulitizer Prize. If you put a photograph of two people making love on the front page of that newspaper, you might very well go to jail. So we're living in a society that is really condoning violence and condemning sex. It's beyond me to understand the rationale of it."
Goldstein: "Larry, you're so right. No one ever stuck up a bank with a vibrator. This is a world of weapons. Sex is pleasurable and positive, and Falwell's frightened about it. But you wanted to touch on the audience."
Cochran: "It's an 8 billion industry - who's buying this stuff?"
Goldstein: "I'll tell you - men and women. There are women who think sex is positive and orgasm is positive. We just started something two weeks ago www.screwmag.com our website. We got over one million hits the first four days - people wanting this website. They want to look at sex. In a world where there is so little pleasure, this is a positive thing."
Cochran: "Rev. Falwell, what do we do about this? We are concerned about violence."
Falwell: "I think, very frankly, gratuitous sex and violence, both should be prohibited and the movie industry, etc. I don't think there's anyway to separate the violence in our schools and the lives of our children from what they see and watch and hear in their total lives. A moment ago Al said no one is ever hurt by these sex devices and so forth. Well, the fact is, as a pastor, and there are 600,000 pastors in America and priests and rabbis, we know better. We know we clean up. We spend hundreds of thousands of hours collectively trying to correct and help and repair families and lives and individuals who are damaged, in fact, by this sex industry."
Goldstein: "Let's talk about pedophilia in the church. More people have died in the name of Jesus Christ than have ever died in the name of Deep Throat. I must tell you, if I want to read filth, I'll read the New Testament or the Old Testament. I'm an atheist. More people are hurt by the superstition that you try to promulgate. Shame on you, Jerry Falwell. Shame on."
Falwell: "Al, the fact that there may be a pedophile in the church doesn't justify you creating pedophiles by feeding the perverse appetites - you mentioned that you got a million hits in four days. Nobody argues with the fact that you have successfuly perverted a lot of minds and lives with the porn industry. What we need to do is try and straighten that out where there won't be a million hits in four days."
Cochran: "One of the problems I have as a longtime civil libertarian, I worry about our children being exposed to porn. Don't you have some concern about that? Isn't that a major problem?"
Goldstein: "Johnny, it's simple. If people want to visit our website, they have to have a credit card. More are hurt by religion. You defended a case where a knife was involved. You don't make illegal all knives. Anything can be misused. Don't make sex into something dirty and filthy. It's for adults. I'm talking about the rights of adults. That's what Larry Flynt and I believe in."
Cochran: "Larry Flynt, you've taken several of these cases all the way to the Supreme Court. You're back there in Cincinnati, again, Are you prepared to take this one, if you lose, all the wat to the Supreme Court?"
Flynt: "Of course. All the way. I've always felt that somethings are not worth going to jail for. It's not worth very much. We're prepared to do whatever we have to do. Fortunately, I'm much more organized than I was in '77. I'm much more financially prepared to deal with the burden of defending the case."
Cochran: "Larry, do you think this trial can change anything? Can it spell out for all Americans, can it frame the issue and change something in a way you'd like to see changed?"
Flynt: "Not really, Johnnie. The Supreme Court is going to have to revisit that Miller v. California 1973 decision. They left it up to individual communities to set their own standards. I'm hoping the high court will get a case where they can take a new look at it."
Cochran: "Jerry Falwell, you've said that you don't want to see Larry Flynt go to jail. You have some regard for him. You want to continue your battle saving his soul, as it were. What would you like to see happen in this lawsuit. Apparently the Supreme Court has said you look at each community to determine obscenity."
Falwell: "I like the Supreme Court ruling. The only better thing for the Supreme Court, in my estimate, is to make pornography illegal. Period. Universally. But that's not going to be done. Therefore, the community standard, I think, is a good rule. I hope it stands. For Larry and Al, they both say they're atheists, I can prove that they're not. There's a verse in the bible, which says, Psalms 14:1, 'The fool has said in his heart there's no God.' And Al and Larry may be something, but they're not fools. They're very bright, and, in their innermost hearts, I leave the program, saying give your heart and your life to the Lord Jesus Christ and get out of that corny business and come help reach the world for Christ."
Goldstein: "That's what I want to know. How does the Lord look on panties?"
[Dan Horn of the Cincinnati Enquirer interviewed both AVN publisher Paul Fishbein and Flynt attorney H. Louis Sirkin at the last AVN Awards Show]
All the stars showed up in January for the big awards show at Bally's Hotel in Las Vegas. They stepped out of their limousines in tuxedos and formal dresses, pausing on the red carpet to smile for the cameras and wave to their fans. Then they went inside for a $200-a-plate dinner and a ceremony that would decide which movie was best of the year:
Love's Passion, Looker or Debbie Does Dallas: The Next Generation.
More than anything else, the annual [AVN] adult video awards reveal just how much the pornography business has changed in the past decade.
It is the biggest night of the year for an industry that now boasts 100 production companies, thousands of performers and more than $4.1 billion in annual sales.
"The videos seem to be part of the mainstream now," said H. Louis Sirkin, the Cincinnati attorney for Hustler magazine publisher Larry Flynt. "It's reached the point where it's something you can buy and not feel dirty about it." Mr. Sirkin may find out how mainstream the business has become when he defends Mr. Flynt against obscenity charges at his trial in Cincinnati.
The charges are based on 16 sexually explicit videos that were sold at Mr. Flynt's Hustler store on Sixth Street. While the videos caused a stir in Cincinnati, they are considered routine in an industry that produces about 5,000 new videos every year.
Adult Video News (AVN), which sponsors the annual awards show, estimates that U.S. video stores rented nearly 700 million adult features in each of the past three years. That's an annual increase of about 250 million since 1991.
"I'm sure the prosecutors would like to think 700 perverts are renting a million tapes apiece, but that's not it," said Paul Fishbein, AVN's publisher. He said the boom began in the 1980s when VCRs became affordable to the masses, opening the world of adult film to a larger audience. Previously seen only in X-rated theaters or mail-order catalogs, porn films suddenly were on shelves at the corner video store. Videotapes were not only cheaper to make and easier to distribute, they could be seen in the privacy of the viewer's home.
"In the old days, porn was an underground thing," said Paul Cambria, another one of Mr. Flynt's attorneys. "Now these tapes are all over the place." But prosecutors and industry critics say the tapes shouldn't be tolerated simply because there are so many of them. The Rev. Donald Wildmon, president of the American Family Association in Tupelo, Miss., contends explicit videos dehumanize women and threaten families.
"It's extremely destructive," he said. "Many lives, many marriages, many homes have been broken because of pornography." Mr. Fishbein, however, describes the tapes as harmless entertainment for adults. He said obscenity laws are antiquated because the Internet and cable TV have taken pornography out of the public domain and into private homes. He said the videos in Mr. Flynt's case are a good example of the kind of videos that might be found in those homes today.
They include the porn world's equivalent of home videos (Pam and Tommy Lee, Hardcore and Uncensored), gay-oriented tapes (Jeff Stryker's Underground), and specialty tapes (Oral Passions). Some feature no-name performers while others boast stars like Rocco Siffredi, whom Mr. Fishbein calls "the Arnold Schwarzenegger of porn." Mr. Fishbein said the video boom has dramatically changed the business.
Top performers now command six-figure salaries and the top production companies battle fiercely for a share of the market. And when they meet at the awards show every year, they compete for honors ranging from Best Film to Best Sex Scene.
"It's a very big deal," Mr. Sirkin said. "They take it very seriously."
