AVN editor Mark Kernes spoke to Marc Wallice, yesterday, at VCA about charges that Wallice, allegedly, forged tests. Wallice gave Kernes several addresses where he tested, including a 1600 San Fernando Rd.address; and one at 8215 Van Nuys Blvd, two branches of the NEVHC clinics. Wallice says he's spoken to Mark Henrickson of the Northeast Valley Health Corporation [NEVHC].
Wallice's recollection of addresses and where he went at what times, sounds like the classic Abbott & Costello "Who's on First?" routine.
Kernes: "You went to this address?" [the 1600 San Fernando Rd. address]
Wallice: "Yeah"
Kernes: "And he [Henrickson] was there?"
Wallice: "No. He's at the other address. Depending what day you go, you go to a different clinic. There's three or four different places depending on the day you want to go whether it's a Monday, Wednesday or a Friday; a Tuesday, Thursday or Saturday, or something to that effect.
Kernes: "The problem is that they [NEVHC] haven't been at this address [a 14860 Roscoe Blvd., Suite 205-207 address] since March of 1997. [The address in question is one that appears on a March, 1998 ELISA test Wallice has produced to support his claim at the time that he was HIV negative.]
Wallice [ sounds exasperated]: "Well..I can see you talking about me changing the date or something..I don't...I..I.. want to call these places and check it out. And I want to go with my attorney and I want to make a phone call...
Kernes: "We start with Tricia Devereaux who shows up positive in roughly in mid-January [1998]. Then somebody at Free Speech, Sharon Mitchell, tries to get on a geneology of who she worked with. Your name is on that list. Some time in early April [1998] is when they find out about Brooke Ashley and this girl Caroline.
Wallice: "I thought it was the other way around. Caroline was..I thought..it's been awhile..I thought Devereaux came down, like, in October or something, and Brooke came down around December..and the foreign chick..and the gangbang for Anabolic...came down in February. Is that correct? Not that it matters.
Kernes: "But I guess the difference is when they came down is probably an open question. The only thing I know is when they had a first positive test. Tricia's first positive test was I think mid-January. Brooke Ashley's was in mid-April and Caroline's was within a week after that. Your name shows up on all their lists. According to Sharon Mitchell as of the Free Speech meeting which was the second week in February [1998], Free Speech had offered to pay for DNA tests for all the talent. All the talent that could possibly have been involved in this. People went out and got DNA tests."
Wallice: "This was when?"
Kernes: "This would have been after the second week in February, February 10. That was the night they announced that Tricia was positive."
Wallice: "I didn't take one?"
Kernes: "You didn't take one at that time. At least not that I know of. At that point Sharon did Tricia's geneology and had managed to eliminate, who she thought, everyone on the list because, according to her, you told her you had a clear test."
Wallice: "I never told her that."
Kernes: "Okay..." Wallice: "I never told her that. She never asked me. She just got mixed up and just assumed, I guess. I've never lied and said I had a DNA test. I said I didn't have one, that I wouldn't get one because I don't need one. [I told her] I'm in post-production. I'm editing. I'm not working. As soon as my movie's done, and I start hiring and I'm ready to work again, I'll get a test. I don't need to get one right now. And nobody told me to go get one, until all this came down and I started getting all these phone calls...Nobody said it's because they thought I was the connection.
Kernes: "I may have mislead you. What Sharon told me was that, just in passing, she was in the PAW office at the time, she said something in the hall and she said, ‘Mark, can you bring me in a test?' I don't think she was referring to a DNA test even. She was looking for an ELISA test."
Wallice: "I recall passing her by. I don't remember saying...I remember seeing her, she says, ‘You've been DNA'd out.' And I said, ‘ Nah, I haven't taken a DNA. I've got my ELISA out. I may not have said that, but that was my reference..."
Kernes: "Were you aware at that point that Tricia was positive?"
Wallice: "Of course. Everybody knew.."
Kernes: "Your position was that as soon as you were done your post-production work.."
Wallice: "There was no reason for me to test until I was ready to go to work again."
Kernes: "Do you say that to anyone?"
Wallice: "Yes! I told Patrick Collins that. I told everybody who told me to come down and get a test. They kept hounding and hounding, so I went down and did it. The key point, here, is if I knew I was positive, I would not have gone down there and took the fucking test. I would have refused. I would just never done that. I would have disappeared, retired, or said I wasn't acting any more. But that's not what I did. Patrick said come on down, so I came down."
Kernes: "Patrick's memory is a little bit different. As far as he's concerned, he had to make you go down..."
Wallice: "He didn't make do nuthin'. Nobody could make me do nuthin'. But to get everybody to shut up, we went together. He took one too. He didn't force me. No matter how much he pushed if I knew I was positive, and I knew I was responsible for this, I would not have done it!" I would think I'd have found another way out. Probably admitted it."
Kernes: "Some thought that you were simply afraid that you were positive and didn't want to know. Any response to that?
Wallice: "My response to that is these tests. I did not know. When I was ready to go back to work, I would have gone into my place, got a test, and if it would have come back positive, I would have been positive for awhile. I would have shit. What do I do? What do I do? I don't know what to do. Am I going to quit the business? Direct? Or am I going to make an announcement like John Stagliano. I don't know what I would have done because that choice never came about. I'm already crucified. It doesn't matter. There's nothing proved."
Kernes: "When we see the test at the clinic, you can't get any better proof than that. What has some people puzzled, when you did take the DNA test, it showed that your viral count was over 100,000 units. It seems strange that you could have a negative ELISA roughly three weeks before..."
Wallice: "I told him [the doctor] why is it so high? Is there any way to tell how long I've had it? They said no. The nurse and the doctor told me as soon as you contract it, your body is shocked, it's not ready for it, and it takes over and it [the viral count] goes real high. Eventually your body gets a hold of it and it goes down. And now, gradually, it goes back up until you start doing medication. First [in my case] it runs rampant. Then it will go up consistently until you die. Unless you get on medication."
Kernes: "Have you been feeling under the weather?"
Wallice: "This is what somebody told me. Nobody's taking the positive side of it. And if they've spoken, they've been ignored. Everybody wants to go after me....My immune system must have been shot...I was big time before... I went into the treatment center...which was in ‘96. I was in a drug program. 60 days. That's when I started my line [video line]. Before that I was a cocaine fiend. I went on binges. I wouldn't eat. I wouldn't sleep. Five days straight. I'd run out of money and pass out. Then I'd recoup for a week and be back to normal. That went on every few months for a long time. And many other people in this industry joined me. They were part of it. Brooke Ashley was one of them. And that's the honest-to-God's truth. Maybe I was so weak... Maybe that's why it [the viral count] was so high. You ought to be talking to some specialists."
Kernes: "Do you think that you're HIV is the reason that either Brooke.."
Wallice: "I haven't used the needle since me and Sharon and Aja used needles ten years ago. Whenever Aja started in the industry. When her and I hooked up. I would smoke my dope. They would shoot up. Maybe five times I tried it. I didn't like it. I've had sex with nobody outside the business. I'm not gay. I don't do GAY outcall like somebody told me they heard. I love women. I've fucked too many beautiful women. I love women. Ask all these women...Jeanna Fine...how passionate I am when we worked together. I can't get turned on by a guy's hairy ass. Get the fuck out of here. I have not fucked anybody outside of this industry in more than 10, 15 years...the only thing, there were three producers [inside the adult business], three females...those were the only people that were.."
[Wallice said his current lovers are not HIV positive and he's still with them. Wallice says he still has sex with them but doesn't want to put them on the spot.]
Kernes: "We have five people that are HIV positive. The only link between them is you. The question is where did it come from?"
Wallice: "I must have got it from whichever is the first one. Maybe it wasn't Trish. Maybe Trish got it somewhere else. Maybe I got it from Brooke and then gave it to Caroline. I don't know who the other two or three are you're talking about. The idea that Patrick Collins is suggesting that I've been positive for ten years is fucking ludicrous. He's going to be in for big trouble soon. I've got nothing to hide. That's pure slander. And ‘ol fuck-face Internet boy Luke Ford... and I think there was one other article in Hustler...there was one on my side and there was something Patrick said. We're [Wallice and his attorney] going to be looking for all these articles and put them on the table and make a decision what we want to do [legally]. I'm not going to sit here and take this anymore. It makes me look worse to sit here and not doing nothing. By God, if I did know this and this was true, I'd just want it over and say..okay I was on drugs...I did not do this...not knowingly..all I can is, if I was positive, I must have been positive and gotten a couple of negative ELISA's during the positive. Maybe my last ELISA, the viral load was so high, I may have been positive..I DON'T KNOW!!
Kernes: "We got a test, March 25, 1998. And you took your DNA sometime mid-April. The question is, you were busy.."
Wallice: "My point was I just..I don't know..why..maybe I didn't understand..then I guess I realized..the rumors started flying. But if I knew I was positive I would have made up excuses to not do it.
Kernes: "Some are claiming you avoided taking the test because you were afraid you were positive."
Wallice: "How long did I avoid taking the test? Why would I be afraid I was positive? Where would I have gotten positive from?
Kernes: "Did you not know that you were on Tricia's list?"
Wallice: "Yeah...but I didn't think I could get it from a woman. I didn't think that could happen. I know I didn't do anything outside the business that would make me be afraid of finding out that I was positive. I knew that."
Kernes: "Somebody having HIV in this business is very dangerous for the business. That's why they have the tests. Speaking, theoretically, what are your feelings about somebody who's in the business and positive and working?"
Wallice: "Very bad. They should be killed. And that's why my head is so fucked up. Everybody believes this. I don't know how I'd feel if I was on the other side. About this person. My mind is running rampant wondering what all these people are feeling, and how many of them probably wish I was dead. And they wish this and share this with no proof."
Kernes: "Trish is positive, you're on her list. Brooke is positive, you're on her list. Caroline turns positive you're on her list.." This must have been a very confusing time for you. Here you are with a negative ELISA test, and, yet, there are these people who are positive and they're trying to get through the lists of who they worked with. Those people are coming up negative through DNA which is more accurate. At this point you're starting to wonder what's going on here.
Wallice: "Yeah..I could just not imagine..I couldn't..I'm getting high from trying to think maybe... I was trying to put it off.. I didn't get a chance to deal with it. I was slammed immediately. All my attention was focused on what everybody was saying and accusing me and all these rumors...and on a hit list. That's why I disappeared for 2 1/2 months and spent $7,000 on cocaine in a hotel room. When it was done, that was even worse to deal with this. Coming down, you know how shitty you feel when you come off a big run like that? To have to deal with a mental issue like that? During that time the rumors just got worse. That didn't do me no good. I lost all my money. At least I would have had some money to take care of things I needed to take care of. I'm off a two-month binge and don't have a penny. Thank God I have a mother. Thank God Russ [Hampshire] gave me a job. He called me. Gene Ross told me to call Russ. I called Russ. I seem to be getting my life back together."
Kernes: "Then I hate to bring up this topic. Are you aware that Brooke Ashley has filed suit?"
Wallice: "Yeah... but I haven't been served with nothing. What's she going to sue me with? I have nothing. She's got to prove something, anyway. As soon as I heard that, that's when I started calling lawyers. I file a suit against her."
Kernes: "One of the contentions in her lawsuit is that you knew you were positive. And you hid it. You would say that's not true. The other thing she's saying is that people like Dan Beck, Cash Markman, and Kevin Beech and Joe Spallone also knew that you were positive and hid it. Any reaction to this?"
Wallice: "How would they know this!!?? This is ludicrous. This chick is off her fucking rocker and so are you and anybody else that believes that. That's some fucking bimbo chick that does outcall and does cocaine and right now is fucking people in Hawaii without protection knowing she's HIV positive. I get that right from the horse's mouth. I was just told that Friday. I got first hand information that she's out there doing this. [Wallice doesn't identify his source.] How can anybody believe this...because they feel sorry for her...they believe anything she says. She's gone off the edge, now. Maybe there's a good reason to because she's frustrated. This is what I was told. I'm not making it up. I don't know how any of you people can take this 100% seriously. How could she say that I knew I was positive? How can this be proven? I know you're on all the girls' sides because you want them all to love you. What haven't the cops called me? Why don't they want my side? I keep hearing this police shit. That frightens me. I wonder when I'm going to get a knock on my door [to be arrested]. I don't even know what the charge would be anyway. These officers need to look at her character before they take this complaint seriously. It's done. It's not going to do me any good to sue her. She has nothing, but if she wants to be an asshole, I'm going to give her hell, too. I'm going to file a counter-suit against her. She knew she was positive, and I have people that will say, ‘She's come to my house, and I paid her for sex.' That's what I have. How can you say, absolutely without a doubt it came from me."
Kernes: "You have to admit it looks a little weird."
Wallice says he recalls an incident where he walked into video company and saw a scene being editing. It featured Randy Spears jerking off. Wallice asked why that was, and, supposedly, was told there was something wrong with Spears' test. "This guy doesn't get shut off," says Wallice. "Wouldn't that be a cause to change something and do something? Would it take somebody else to be positive for something to happen? Nobody cared."
Kernes: "The only guy that I knew that made any deal about tests of yours from two years ago where dates may have been changed was Luke Ford."
Wallice [referring to the Spears incident and others that he mentions in passing]: "There should have some scalding going on. These people are fucking stupid to let that go and not saying anything about it."
Kernes: "You think your situation has been a red light for other situations?"
Wallice: "It should definitely wake some fucking people up, but it doesn't seem to. It's going to have to happen again."
Kernes asked Wallice his view on condoms, particularly the fact that he was working for VCA, a condom-only company. "I always used condoms because I was real sensitive and it helped me last longer. I prefer to use condoms. That's why I always preferred working for Vivid with the Vivid girls because they always wanted to use condoms." Wallice says he can't even imagine the fans' take on the condom issue.
Kernes went on to direct questions to Wallice about the specific HIV test documents themselves, their inconsistencies, and whether they could be forgeries.
Wallice: "You can't make these numbers in the computer. They don't make zeroes like that. The date's not changed. The age is different in some cases. Most of the time that's blank on my tests."
Kernes" You understand the very best way to confirm everything you told me is for us to take a look at their [NEVHC] copy of this test. Can we do that?"
Wallice: "Yeah. Like I said, when I prove this I'm going to have recourse against all these people, and AVN hasn't written anything yet. I wouldn't like to bring a lawsuit against them. You can also call the lab and give them this code number and give them my name, and give them the date..."
Kernes: "You see, I can't... you can. That's your test."
Wallice: "Didn't Sharon do this? She said, ‘I called the lab,' wherever this one was from. ‘Cause they changed labs...they changed notations.."
Kernes: "If this test is a duplicate of what NEVHC has in their files, then you are so free and clear, nobody will further have any questions about you. I don't quite understand why you're a little reluctant to do this."
Wallice: "I'm not. There's nothing wrong with this."
Kernes: "I'm also aware of a test dated March 5, 1998."
Wallice: "I think that's the one Sharon checked. What about it?"
Kernes: "You've actually gone in for two tests in the period that you were under suspicion. So you were getting regular tests, you just weren't getting the DNA?"
Wallice: "Yeah. Nobody ever said anything. I never handed anybody a copy. I always had the colored version. These are colors, and there's stripes, and this is like blue and yellow down here or something like that. I handed it to somebody, they'd hand it back to me. Nobody ever said where was your DNA test. Why didn't they say Mark you can't work? That is not my fault. Maybe if they said that, we would have found out sooner and I could be spared this. I walked on that Spallone set...that gangbang...I handed it [the test] to them. They made a copy and gave it back. That was that. I'm sure they were short for guys and maybe that was the reason they were taking anybody. I've also heard that guys didn't even have tests. Who's the one that should be making sure of this? Not the director. Not the P.A. It's the actress. She didn't care! I'm not saying that's okay. But you see what I'm saying. There's a whole other side that's responsible. If these accusations are true, even if they aren't true, it's their fault."
Kernes: "Are you sure the original of that [the test] is blue?"
Wallice: "I don't know."
Kernes: "Because Henrickson seems to think that he was giving out white copies, that they were really run off on the Xerox."
Wallice: "I never had a copy. No. I always had originals. I don't know if they were blue, but it was more than white and black [Xerox copies]. I think this was a shaded color. I'll call them."
Kernes has made a tentative appointment with Wallice to go down to the testing center tomorrow.
