Cincinnati: "Larry, How Come You Cut and Run?!!"

Cincinnati: "Larry, How Come You Cut and Run?!!"

Flynt: "I Didn't Plead Gulity to Anything!! The Corporation Entered a Plea!"

Minutes after Larry Flynt cut a deal with Hamilton County yesterday, Court TV had him on the air for an interview in which Flynt got chided by his opposition for not taking a stand. Court TV's Nancy Grace conducted the interview with Flynt, his brother Jimmy and Phil Burress, president of Citizens for Community Values. At times, Flynt achieved levels of dramatic apoplexy when Burress continually baited him about taking a dive. The interview was also spiced with soundbites from Hamilton County prosecutor Mike Allen

Nancy Grace: "The king of porn cops a plea, but prosecutors make his corporation, Hustler, not him, take the heat. Surprise moves in court. Cincinnato prosecutors dropped all charges against Larry Flynt and his brother Jimmy. In return, Flynt agress to remove all X-rated videos from the store shelves. And his company, not him, takes the rap, pleading guilty to two of 15 charges of obscenity.

Larry Flynt: "I said it was like French kissing your sister, you know. It was the wrong thing to do."

Grace: "That's how the king of porn Larry Flynt described the deal he made with prosecutors to avoid a potential 24 year prison stay on obscenity charges."

Flynt: "My brother was faced with the same amount of time - 24 years - it's one thing for me. I could do time on principle. It's another thing to expect him to do it."

Jimmy Flynt: "I don't think Larry or I, either one, was ready to do 24 years in prison. Maybe 24 months."

Grace: "Today [Wednesday] prosecutors dropped charges against the two brothers in exchange for a guilty plea against the corporation, a plea to pandering obscenity. Prosecutors hit the corporation in the wallet with a fine of $10,000. Flynt and his brother also agree to remove all X-rated videos from their Cincinnati store, including the big hit, Pam and Tommy Lee Hardcore and Uncensored.

Mike Allen: "Larry Flynt, Jimmy Flynt and Hustler News and Gifts Inc. will not put these types of sexually explicit videos for sale in Hamilton County. If they do we can immediately reinstitute this prosecution."

Grace: "Flynt insists today's courtroom battle was not a loss but a huge win for his porn empire."

Flynt: "Had the prosecutor made a demand and a plea that Hustler magazine and the other magazines that I publish be removed from Hamilton County, we would not be here now. We would still be upstairs picking a jury."

Grace: "The 15-count indictment accused Flynt and his brother of selling obscene porn videos to adults and to a minor."

Flynt: "We don't sell to minors."

Allen: "An operator of a store like that has an obligation to ascertain the age, and clearly they didn't."

Grace: "Flynt says he had hoped this trial in Hamilton County would show that standards for obscenity have changed over the years. But his brother said, that, in spite of today's outcome, the Flynts aren't going anywhere."

Jimmy Flynt: "We accomplished what we set out to do. Now we've got our magazines re-established back in the county. We've pulled the videos and we stay open for business."

[Grace played for Flynt the famous "shove it" soundbite of his from 22 years ago.]

Grace: "Larry Flynt, king of porn, what happened? Where did that guy go?"

Flynt: "Hey, that guy's still here, and I'm still fighting. I want to reiterate. Had this prosecutor demanded that we remove Hustler from the shelves of Cincinnati, there would have been no plea. We would still be in court picking a jury right now."

Grace: "Uh-ugh. Larry Flynt, you got spooked yesterday when that nun took herself off that jury. You folded up and you moved out of town, buddy."

Flynt: "Hey, look that was great. Because in our first trial, people were lying through their teeth to get on the jury. This time people were coming in and saying because of their religious and personal beliefs they couldn't view the videos or be objective and be fair and impartial. That was to our advantage. We didn't have to use any of our preemptive challenges. I think the prosecutor was going into the day with a much weaker position on the voir dire than we were."

Grace: "Speaking of the prosecutor, everybody says the other guy blinked first, but all that aside, I've tried enough cases to know this. Something happened overnight. Yesterday [Tuesday] was full steam ahead. And this morning [Wednesday] everybody came in with a plea deal. You git through 30 jurors. What happened, Larry?"

Flynt: "My attorney approached me and asked me if I would be amenable to a deal. I said what kind of deal. And he layed it out for us. He said Jimmy and I would not have to enter a plea. That sounded good."

Grace: "Jimmy, yo've done a lot of battle with your brother. This is not the first time you've guys have gone to trial together. What did it feel like looking at over 20 years in the penitentiary?"

Jimmy Flynt: "Maybe 24 months, but 24 years is a long time. Most important, the store is still open. It's going to remain open. The only thing we're not going to selling there is video. There's going to be a lot of x-rated materials sold there, including our magazines, our novelities, and lingeries, and other gifts and items."

Grace: "You know how I feel about your magazine. I'm not a big devotee of your magazine. But speaking of your store, you went back to the store today. Were sales pretty brisk?"

Jimmy Flynt: "Sales were brisk. It was kind of disheartening that I had to box up the videos, but I complied with the agreement. But we're still in business."

Grace: "Larry Flynt, I was listening to the prosectuor earlier, and he was saying how the standards of the community have risen, but what I can tell, based on your sales, you guys sold thousands of porn videos in the short while you were open. Somebody in Hamilton County likes porn."

Larry Flynt: "It's obvious that community standards have changed. We found the potential jurors to be much more open-minded, than in the past. If the prosecution had such an airtight case and they wanted to run us out of town, and put us away for 24 years, why did they cut a deal?"

Grace: "Bottom line, what you got today was a slap on the wrist. That $10,000 doesn't even come out of your pocket. But, what about the people sitting on the sidelines saying that you let down First Amendment supporters. What do you have to say to them?"

Larry Flynt: "I really felt bad about that because people have alsways known that I've been on the forefront in the fight to protect Free Speech. But I think in this particular situation, they will understand."

Grace: "Well, I know one thing. When you're in a war, you got to pick your battle....the Cincinnati prosecutors say Flynt cracked because he thought a jury would lock him up and throw away the key."

Mike Allen: "I think they were staring down the barrel of the potential jury they had, and they decided to make this agreement. I'm not going to cast any aspersions at all on what theire motives were. I'm just happy we made the agreement that is good for the citizens of Hamilton County. This was a fight about keeping these types of sexually explicit videos out of Hamilton County. Mr. Flynt ran up the white flag and retreated on that. This is a total victory for us, and I don't know under what theory Mr. Flynt can proclaim a victory."

Grace: "But just who was the real winner in court today? With us, Phil Burress for the Citizens for American Values. Phil, you got a special angle on this case as a former porn addict. What do you mean by that and what is your reaction to the plea today?"

Burress: "I'm a lifelong resident of Cincinnati, and, yes at the age of 14, I was exposed to pornography and became addicted to it for 25 years. The results of this trial are absolutely stunning. I'm so surprised that Mr. Flynt pled guilty, that it was Mr. Flynt who approached the prosecutors with a deal. This is a tremendous victory for the people of Hamilton County."

Grace: "This is a slap on the wrist!"

Burress: "Wait a minute. We have no X-rated tapes. We have no hardcore pornography."

Grace: "Have you been to the 7-Eleven? There are videos as bad or worse than even the Flynt videos on the rack right now!"

Burress: "Mam, I'm sorry. But you're absolutely incorrect. There are no hardcore pornography videotapes in Hamilton County. You are mistaken."

Grace: "I talked to your prosecutor today, dear, and they are there. It's just that Flynt has been targeted for prosecution. Larry Flynt, you know yourself, videos, very much like the ones they made you take off the shelf, are still there. Response?"

Larry Flynt: "That's right. You know, Phil needs to get a life. He comes out with a comment like we entered a plea. My brother and I didn't enter a plea. The corporation did. It doesn't affect us, personally, whatsoever."

Jimmy Flynt: "I'll tell you what. Phil, and people like him should really concentrate on the violence in society. They condone violence and condemn sex. He doesn't even live in Cincinnati!"

Burress: "Why would you agree to never again sell sexually explicit videotapes if you're such a defender of the First Amendment? Why did you enter an agreement like that?"

Jimmy Flynt: "Phil come down to the store. I'll give you plenty to get addicted on."

Burress: "Larry, how come you cut and run? I just don't understand. You came into town trying to lower our community standards. We're the flagship of the nation. We have the highest community standards in the nation. You picked a fight, and you cut and run. I don't get it."

Larry Flynt: "Phil, you're such an idiot!! The thing that I wanted to accomplish down here was to re-establish distribution for Hustler in this county. I have achieved that. I'm not retreating from anything. We have the magazine available for distribution! We didn't cut and run!"

Grace: "Phil, when he came back into town, remember, he was distributing his magazine. And tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock he'll still be distributing his magazine. So who do you think was the real winner here?"

Burress: "Listen, here's the decision. The trial was not about Hustler magazine. Larry, you're a great spin doctor. I have to give you credit. It was about 16 videotapes. You pled guilty. You said you will never sell them again. You are no defender of the First Amendment. I'm sorry."

Larry Flynt: "I didn't plead guilty to anything!! The corporation entered a plea!"

Burress: "I'm sorry. Now we're splitting hairs. That's what it said Larry, that you pleaded guilty, with your attorney's signature on it."

Grace [to Burress]: "You stated that you were a porn addict and that you started being a porn addict at age 14. And you want these videos out of town, but yet you know that these type of videos are still on the rack. Yet you insist they have suffered a defeat? How?"

Burress: "Let me get this straight once and for all. You just don't get it. You don't live here, and I don't know where you get your information. There is no place in Cincinnati that deals in hardcore, sexually explicit X-rated tapes. That's a fact."

Grace: "Phil, we sent our reporter to several stores in Cincinnati.."

Burress: "No she did not! I challenge her on that. She went to Butler County where there are two trials going on right now for the same thing..."

Grace: Phil, forget that point. Let me ask you this. How do you see it as a defeat for Larry when he didn't plead guilty and there's no money coming out of his pocket."

Burress: "Secondly, if you want to know about the victims of pornography, go to www.victimsofpornography.org and read about the victims.

Larry Flynt: "It must be your website, Phil."

Burress: "It is our website. We're collecting stories of victims from all across the country. You're hurting people with your material. But you're not going to do it anymore in Cincinnati with X-rated tapes because you cut and run."

Grace: "Jimmy Flynt, how do you see this gulity plea today, on behalf of your corporation, changing adult entertainment in the future?"

Jimmy Flynt: "I don't see it changing it any at all. We're still going to be open in Cincinnati, and there will still be plenty of sexually-explicit material available on Sixth Street in Cincinnati."

Burress: "Is it going to be obscene?"

Jimmy Flynt: "That's up to your addictive behavior to decide."

Burress: "You guys are a little on edge since you pleaded guilty."

Jimmy Flynt: "You're the addict, Phil. You're the professional."

Burress: "I'm very happy today. Our community standards are higher..."

Larry Flynt: "Phil, are you happy that Hustler is still available in Hamilton County? Does that make you happy? Two years ago you wouldn't have said that. You're trying to claim victory on behalf of the prosecutors when you know you're full of it."

Burress: "First of all, this case had nothing to do with your magazine. I don't know why you keep talking about that."

Grace: "Last word to Larry Flynt. Larry, hit me."

Larry Flynt: "My last word is that the greatest right any nation can afford its people is the right to be left alone. The people who enjoy this material, the only thing they want is to be left alone. They don't want the Phil Burress' of the community on their backs or the prosecutors."

Mike Allen: "Larry Flynt came back here, I think this was his exact words, 'We want to settle unfinished business.' He's the one who brought this on himself. We did not selectively prosecute him."

Grace: "Whether you think that Larry Flynt was the target of Cincinnati prosecutors or not, shock waves from today's guilty plea will be felt for a long time to come. Flynt agreed not to sell hardcore videos in Cincinnati ever again. But how will that sweetheart deal affect the rest of the porn industry. With us his Al Goldstein, editor of Screw mMagazine and longtime pornographer promoter. Hi, Al. and continuing from Cincinnati with us is Phil Burress."

Grace: "Phil, let me clear something up. You stated you were addicted to porn. What exactly do you mean by that?"

Burress: "It becomes an obsession. Pornography teaches lust. There are two different types of sexual behavior - love and lust. What pornography teaches you to do is lust and view women as sexual objects and use them and abuse them."

Grace: "But when you say you're addicted, what does that mean? You watch pornograpy at 8am, 10am, did you lose your home, your family, what happened?"

Burress: "I lost my family. I almost lost my home. It becomes an addiction where you just have to have it. There's different addictions at different levels, and if people are really serious about this, they need to look at our website and look at the victims' stories. We're getting 100 hits a day with people telling us the harm that pornography has caused them."

Grace: "Al Goldstein, you have a thriving business in New York, including Screw Magazine. Do you think you're next? Would [mayor] Giulianni just love to get his choppers in you?"

Goldstein: "Nancy, I would plead guilty to anything to just look at you. You're so magnificent. I'm giving the D.A. and Phil a second bite at the apple. I'm laying the gauntlet down. July 4th I will be in front of the Hustler store selling copies of Screw Magazine, and I dare Phil and his nazi fascists to lay a hand on me..."

Grace: "Giulianni will be so happy..."

Goldstein: "Giulianni is a lowlife nazi. He'd rather see somebody shot 41 times than have men look at topless clubs."

Grace: "On Monday night you came on Court TV and you called Larry Flynt your hero."

Goldstein: "He is my hero."

Grace: "Is he still your hero?"

Goldstein: "Yes. I've never personally pleaded guilty to anything. I understand facing 22 years in jail, and also his brother, Jimmy, has homosexual leanings. And they knew in prison he'd become somebody's girlfriend."

Grace: "Well I'm glad you broadcast THAT on national tv..."

Goldstein: "I will be in Cincinnati July 4th, and I dare them to lay a glove on me."

Grace: "You know a lot of detractors having been saying today he copped out, he whimped out. But it's a lot different when you're sitting on the sidelines as opposed to when you're the quarterback, when you're sitting in the back of the courtroom instead of the defendant's chair. It's a lot different."

Goldstein: "Let me talk to you about your guy, Phil. We get a million hits a day for www.screwmag.com. This is the battle of the websites. We're talking about victims of pornography. I'm a victim of love and marriage. Four marriages. I would prefer pornography to the delusion of romance. Phil, you're addicted. You're not qualified to handle porn. What aboout those people who like pornography, who are pro-sex. Would you take their right away, Phil, you little nazi?"

Burress: "I don't really engage people who like to call names."

Grace: "Phil, is that true, even though you yourself repudiated pornography, would you take away that right I guess you'd say under the Constitution, for other people to look at it if they wanted to."

Bureess: "Nancy, in Stanley v. Georgia in 1969, the U.S. Supreme Court said the private possession of obscene material is protected by the First Amendment. The same court four years later..."

Grace: "I didn't say obscenity. That's to be determined by a jury. I'm talking about pornography. Would you take pornography aweay from people that can control themselves and not become addicted?"

Burress: "I'm trying to explain to you that there's two different forms of pornographic material - that which is protected by the First Amendment, and that which is not. It can all be pornography. Maybe what Mr. Goldstein is talking about is protected by the First Amendment. I don't know. That's up to a jury to decide. What I know is, is that in Cincinnati we have the highest community standards of the nation. We have less hardcore pornography in this town than in any other major metropolitan area. We have some of the lowest crime rates in this town because of that. It's a great place to love. We love it, and let's leave it that way."

Goldstein: "Phil, you're the only city that arrested a museum for criminal prosecution for the museum showing the Mapplethorpe photos. You are a disgrace to this country."

Grace: "Al, please, don't abuse my guests. One last question to you, Phil, are you sorry they're not in jail?"

Burress: "No. This was not about putting people in jail. It was about high community standards. Our standards are higher because Mr. Flynt..."

Grace: "Gotta go, guys."