PHOENIX - A seminar simply entitled Barebacking took center stage at the Phoenix Forum with six industry players discussing what is likely the most controversial topic to ever hit our industry. People both for and against condomless gay films spoke up, including the six panelists and several audience members, and though there were more people against barebacking than for it, the discussion remained neutral with a lack of passion that is usually not the case when this topic is at hand. The one thing everyone could agree on was that education seemed to be the best option for keeping performers safe.
Led by moderator Miranda L. of DickWadDollars, who advised that despite the emotions involved in the issue for many, the discussion wasn't meant to be taken personally, it was simply to have a forum where the topic could be out in the open.
The conference room was heavily attended, as Miranda L. (and the audience) led panelists Chris Kren from PornTeam, Chad Belville from Kink.com, Mark Kliem of Lavender Lounge, Andrew Moore from Channel 1, performer Ken Mack, and Scott Haverstock, a social worker at Phoenix's Body Positive through a frank talk about barebacking, its effects on the industry and its performers, and the ethical issues surrounding it.
Mack, who has performed for AmateurStraightGuys.com and Titan, said that in terms of safety on-set, the environment varies by company. When he started performing is 2003, he said that there appeared to be many systems in place to protect the performers, but that since then, things have been more lax. He also pointed out that he's never been pressured in any way whatsoever to perform without condoms, and added that he prefers to not do bareback.
Kliem, who had copies of a pamphlet he'd created regarding barebacking, stated that there were many problems with overseas companies, saying, "The industry is made up of outlaws who have a ‘Fuck the establishment, I'm going to make money however I want' mindset. He also said, "Kids turning 18 went through school systems where abstinence-only was the only message. They're not teaching safe sex ed at all, so when kids turn 18 and can perform producers say I'll give you $300 for this scene, but I'll give you $400 if you do bareback.... People get sent home if they won't do bareback." He said we need to try to convince bareback studios to offer options."
He compared condomless sex with a glamorization of risk as many young people grew up watching Johnny Knoxville, Steve-O and others court danger on the television show Jackass.
When asked by Miranda L. why they thought bareback films were so popular, Moore said, "We can't deny there's a want for the product. On the other hand, people want a lot of things that are bad for them. Just because it sells doesn't make it right."
Kren said that the demand for condomless titles from his site's customers was massive so "we supplied [bareback] titles to retain the customers of our site."
Kliem pointed out that there are conflicting stories about how profitable bareback is and said he thought a lot of inflated numbers on how the titles sell is really about bragging rights.
When asked by the moderator what the legal responsibility of the studio is, Belville responded, "The studios don't have any legal responsibility." He urged models to not just sign any form put before them, and studios not to rush performers into it. He stressed the importance of making an informed decision.
Kliem referenced a recent scandal in the U.K. and three models were seroconverted on a porn set, went to the media, and then pointed the finger at the film's producer, saying, ‘We weren't informed.'
Kliem pointed out that one studio began doing bareback films because the models wanted to.
When an audience member asked if it was true that films with condoms would not sell in Europe, Brent Smith of Hot House, who was also in the audience, piped up that his studio uses condoms and that they have great sales in Europe.
Jerry Deal of bareback studio Treasure Island Media was in the audience and he said that his company didn't require testing of its models but because 99% of its models are HIV+, if someone didn't want to get tested, it send a red flag up. He also added that they guard against bug-chasing, putting positive performers with other positive performers.
This brought up the question of whether two positive people can spread different strains of the virus.
Kliem said that there have been new studies, and "what they thought would be a super virus turned out not to be the case, so there's no fear of guys reinfecting each other."
Haverstock said, "The debate is out there about the super virus. What we can say is that if two people are positive, the way HIV affects each person is different. If there are any opportunistic infections, that their partner doesn't have, then that may transmit. If someone transmits syphilis to an HIV+ person, that could affect that person. The 3rd stage of syphilis comes faster to someone with a compromised immune system."
An audience member who works with the black community in an urban area asked, if she were to test models, how would she break the news to them if the results came back positive?
Belville advised the woman to not tell any model another model's status and also to not put a positive model with any other models who don't know his status. He added, "You can get a negative test that is really positive, so there's no 100% guarantee someone is negative."
When the panel was asked why there was a surge in the interest in barebacking lately, Kliem responded, "In San Francisco, there's a subculture of guys my age who have had AIDS for long time, are on disability, they had good jobs, have good coverage, the bills are paid, they don't have to work, they have steroids provided to them, they go to the gym. So then there are young guys who are left thinking, Why am I working at Starbucks? I can just get HIV and live the good life."
Haverstock said, "It comes down to human nature. If we didn't have STDs, I think everybody would choose to have sex without barriers. And that fits into the fantasy. It's what people may secretly desire. I see this as the focal point of why these videos are selling."
Miranda wondered what responsibility the studios have to inform the community, to which Kliem quipped: "Well, you have to have a conscience."
Belville said, "I hate to say it, but someone needs to get sued to have a guideline. The best thing you can do is educate the models."
Kliem claimed that it was imperative to avoid government intervention: "Some people in the [San Fernando] Valley are sick of having porn around. They think, If we get rid of them, we can get some nice movie production facilities in the 'hood. People are trying to go through OSHA to get rid of us.
Deal asked Moore what Channel 1 was doing to help fight the risk of Hepatitis C, to which Moore responded, "We're looking into testing on-set but guys are coming in from out of town, so it's hard to test them, make them wait for results, then shoot. We're looking for a better standard, but it's easier said than done."
Mack related a story about a shoot he was on in Los Angeles when his scene partner didn't show up. The company found a replacement, and when the may showed up, Mack said he was clearly HIV+. Mack didn't know what to do. He said, "We were having unprotected oral sex. I figured chances were I won't catch anything. But I think the producer and director knew [the other performer was positive] when they called him in at the last minute. I was not pressured to do the scene, but you know, [at the same time] I could have gone out to Silver Lake and had fun and [that partner] could have been positive."
An audience member asked, "Is there any fear that if you don't do the scene, the studio might not ask you back?
Mack's response? "Absolutely."
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